dato' seri syed hamid albar's grilling by sarah montague is a prime example of wht i 'd refer to as the lowest common denominator ["lcd"]. you bet your sweet ass this was lcd at its best. granted sarah wasn't particularly well versed with the issues at hand but albar's replies were mainly based on rubbish best left on the reject pile of the worst "yes, minister" episode you can think of. then again such a comparison, does a great disservice to the series.
i've problems with democratically elected monkeys like albar mouthing off rubbish like he did. why should i (as a viewer) or even sarah hv to put up with rubbish as can bee seen in my short , not all there transcription of the interview.... you can view the real audio clip
here.
"dato' seri hamid albar, welcome to hardtalk..."
" thank you very much..."
"is it time to change malaysia's laws and treat every one as the same?"
"i think, ah, when you talking about looking at everyone... you are looking at nation-building, the most important thing is that malaysians feel they are malaysians. i think we recognise our diversity as a source of our strength, there is no need for us to change our laws so long as we are able to exercise the unity, we are able to act as malaysians, and i think this is happening. the process of nation building is not a short process. we came from a divided society that was recognised by its economic functions, living at a very poor living standards, so i think we have tackled the issues in a way that will bring peace and stability, at the same time people are able to share the prosperity and it is happening..."
"..but then there were laws thatt were originally brought in to help malays who were... basically to tackle poverty, there may have been some justification for them at some time... but since poverty has been tackled, since illiteracy eradicted, what's the justification for treating generations of treating generations old of ethnic chinese and indians who've been in malaysia for generations.. why should they be treated differently now?”
"i think that when you are looking from a detached point of view, you may be seeing it in that way, but if you look in reality, what is happeing is that is the economic growth of the non-malays is faster after the new economic policy than before it, the share of the economic cake is bigger, wider and deeper than before.... so it is, it is not as if you are looking at a theoretical, contextual thing, you are looking at the realities at the ground. on the realities on the ground, if you look at the household income between malays, chinese and indians, even the indians have got better household incomes than the malay, so i think if you take it out of its ethnic dimension, then you will see that it is the function of any government to have the less fortunate, to make sure that the divide, that is based on the ethinic divisions can be overcome, and i think we have.. (done that successfully)....."
"ok, let's look at access to university.."
"hmm..."
"is it fair that it's easier that for malays to get to university than it is for ethnic indians and chinese..?"
"i think maybe the question at the begining is the same thing in uk or any other country that start to build a nation. when you start to build a nation, you see the disparity, education disparity, what we wanted to do was to create the opportunity. how do you avoid seeing people who are living in tthe rural areas with less facilities...”
"...but my argument is that you don't have that problem any longer...”
"we do have, at present it is based on merit, it is based on merit.... if you look at the university, our democratisation of the education, you have to look in total... the number of students in malaysia, i think people who see it from outside will try to aggravate the situation and say 'ahh, there is disparity..'"
"...but does seem to be people from the outside saying this, the ethnic and chinese in malaysia..."
"i think, i think you have to look at it this way... without me getting excited about it or emotional about it. looking at it in a fair balance... if you look at it in terms of "total" number of students of all the universities in malaysia, there are still more non-malays than the malays, and this should not be an issue that divide us. i think that ultimately, we have done, we have tackled all issue, step by step. i think it is working and for malaysia it is working wherever we see there is disparity... at one time scholarships were given to malays, the government scholarships were given to malays, now it is open to non-malays also, so all this that are...."
"so what about government contracts, government contracts?"
"for your information, the contracts that are enjoyed by the chinese in absolute terms and the malays, is bigger than the malays. if i have a land that is one acre, rural area, that one piece of acre of land may be valued at RM10,000-00, or about USD3,000-00. but if you got a 10,000 square feet of land in the urban area, that will costs millions, so we do not look in that we are building a nation, a nation that is left divided, being recognised by their economic activities... now there is that building on common factors amongst us...
"but do you not accept that you are in danger of, that there is rising resentment among ethnic indians and chinese because of this situation that is persisting and they don't see it needs to persist anymore?"
"i, i... i think there is a lot more discussion, open discussion, but do not misinterpret that open discussion among the races as something negative, it shows that the nation has reached a level of maturity. we are questioning things that before, we had taken for granted... the chinese are loking at what more can the get, the indians are looking at how they can improve. i am not saying there is no problem, but for outsiders to come and tell us, "oh, there is going to be racial tension, there is going to be problem' , i say no... i think you just witnessed the 50th anniversary of independence, i think there is that sense of belonging, ownership and it's up the malaysian to go and dismantle whatever they consider..."
"but how is t that ethnic indians and chinese feel a sense of belonging when, right from the very top, that they can't get access to the top cabinet posts?”
"wh-who told you that?"
"when was the last time a senior cabinet post was held by an ethnic indian or chinese?"
"what do you mean by senior cabinet post?"
"since 1973, the top cabinet posts, the prime minister, deputy, home affairs, internal security, foreign, finance, education, trade and international trade. 1973 was the last time any of those post were..."
"i may assume it is so, in other countries..."
"... but we're not talking about other countries..."
"..no.."
"... we are talking about malaysia other countries can deal with their own problems on their own. how do you.. do you recognise that as a problem?"
"let me say..."
"you talk about sharing power..."
"let, let me tell you in a way that you will not get excited, don't get upset about something that you do not understand. let me tell you this, whenever we want to do something, it's important for us to look at other countries, that's how we learn, that's how we leapfrog. democracy does not come be itself, it comes because we look at the examples created...”
"ok..."
"so let me say that in the case here, the most imporrtant thing is that there will come a time when the chinese, the indians and the other races in malaysia have accepted that arrangement, how can somebody from outside come to tell us, 'oh...
"you are saying this situation is fine because nobody is saying anything in malaysia?"
"... no if they are able to, if the opposition are able to or the chinese party are able to decide to get together and to change that thing, there is nothing under the law to stop it, that is why i'm saying..."
"do you not think it's a little odd that all the senior posts in the cabinet, in the last 30 years have been held by a non-malay?"
"i don't think so, this is a democratic system. each one of them have agreed, in a coalition, to work together. it is well and good for somebody to say, "oh.. it should not be", i do not think they are going to be fooled..."
"so those outside, so those outside, those inside malaysia who say this social contract is actually state racism, what do you say to that?"
"oh... i can say the worst about state racism, in our case we don't have state racism, you have to look at this in objectively. i don't think it is right to look at malaysia, as a racist country. i don't think it is right. you should see how the infusion of cultures, the getting together, the people get along together. yes, you can find, there are people who disagree with you, ah.. that people say ahh, it's not perfect, i wouldn't be the last person to say it is a perfect situation, but i think we have succeeded in building a multiracial society out of our diversity. we have succeeded in bringing together the whole of the malaysian community, even the diverse background, together, to work together. there would come a time, you know that if it, the choice of the people, because one person get one vote, then it's up to the voters..."
"because there are plenty of people outside malaysia, let's take a look at investors, because even if you think, look at that being absolutely fine, there are those who would invest in malaysia but choose not to. here, an emerging funds manager has cashed out funds investments in malaysia, cos' he says that, the problem is the malaysian do a lot better as well, if they haven't got the restrictions, they've got the resources, they've got the people, they're just not harnessing them in the right way, and he suggests you roll back those measures to encourage entrepreneurial energy. and that was
mark mobius who's a fund manager with franklin templeton."
"i think, what he's saying is that iif you do not, if there are 10 fund managers, there is 1 fund manager who says it in that way, then i think he is entitled to his own view. but i know a majority of fund managers who find that malaysia is a good place for investment, it is a good place that gives good returns on investment, the malaysian economy has grown because of foreign investment..."
"but why has it not grown as much as other countries..."
"i think, we are quite happy that it has grown the last...if you look at it from double digit... so that is not a bad growth..."
"it's slowing and your neighbouring countries are growing faster?"
"no, there are times our neighbouring countries grow slower and we grow faster. i mean you can't take a one particular moment and say this is growing faster, so therefore, it is because of this... i can actaually give all sorts of clarification but i want to on so many things, but i think you have to look at it, has it succeeded in crating peacce and stability, in generating prosperity among the races. have we succeeded in infusing culture out of our diversity? we are better of than many of our..."
"my question is will it continue to do so?"
"i think it will. i am not in the same position like you are. you look at it negatively. i am a malaysian. my love for my country, my commitment to my country, i am not going to allow anybody, foreigners to tell me, 'oh this is going to break...' i am not going to allow that"
"a recent survey on race relations in malaysia found that 34% of those who were asked have not taken meals with citizens of other races. the lines between races in malaysia arenow so divided, that they learn in seperate schools, they eat seperately, they work seperately, they socialise seperately. does that worry you?"
"well, if happens in that way you say, of course, it worries me. that's why we have been adressing the racial issue. we talk among ourselves, i don't know whether you realise it or not, we talk about the danger of polarisation, the danger of looking at ourselves seperately... of course, we tackle these problems. but we recognise that it can, at least but we have a desire of tackling those issues. is not as we are saying, brush everything under the carpet and saying 'oh, i doesn't exist.' what exists, we recognise. what...."
"but why is society becoming increasingly divided? the crown prince of perak makes the point that in his boyhood, the different races mixed more freely and he says some malay majority schools have made the girls wear headscarves and even told people to avoid non-malay homes. he points the fact that lives are being lead more seperately, increasingly so."
"i think that's a very good comment that he has made. he is as much responsible as all of us are. all of us have to find a way. that we have identified the problem. the fact that a person wears a headscarf does not make a person an extremist. what we want to avoid, is extreme behaviour, through our faith, our culture or our customs. we need to work together. i think the most important thing, you know, sarah... if i can tell you, is to understand the issues and try to address them. Not to look at them, issues, and say “oh, It’s getting worse”. There is this problem, we need to tackle those problems. I’m not saying there is no problem. there is ….”
“do you not accept that it is getting worse? and i quote the ... institute, prominent historian, khoo kay khim, that it is becoming increasingly difficult for people of different races to participate in common acts...”
“i think this is what the malaysians have addressed. all of us are talking about it. it is not something that is alien that you are telling me that this exists...”
“but do you not accept that it’s getting worse?”
“ no, i think race realtions all over the world is getting worse. polarisation all over the world is getting worse. but it does not mean you should give up. we know it exists but we want to take steps to overcome this. that’s why our current government is giving everyone the opportunity to talk about it, and then try to provide solutions. one of the things we have done at the merdeka celebrations is to get that sense of participation, that every race.. because, we know that there is that problem of polarisation, division, people go to chinese schools, to tamil schools, they don’t mix with each other... so all this we are handling and tackling them, i’m not ...
“what are you going to do about the schools then? the fact that they are...”
“of course, we need to overcome the problem of sensitivities... the establishment of intergrated schools, where eveeryone studying their language, studying the medium of instruction under one schools but here in this particular case, the chinese does not want, they want a separate school of their own. so now what we have done in the national school, we have brought in that you can study chinese, you can study tamil, you can study other ethnic, you know you can’t get that in other places, you know i think we recognise their problems, but it is not a problem that we cannot overcome...”
“... article 11, of the malaysian constitution says taht every person has the right to profess and practice his religion; increasingly its seems to be becoming increasingly meaningless. is it?”
“i don’t think so. you are talking about practicing you religion. you know that malaysia is one of the places you can see the practice of multi religion, that is all religion in malaysia. but if you are talking about converting one person, that is a different issue entirely.
“is a muslim, and there have been some high profile cases, perhaps the most high profile is lina joy, malay woman, she tried to convert to christianity and she wasn’t allowed to...”
“no,no... i think you turned this into something negative. lina joy wanted to change her name. she was never not allowed to convert christianity or whatever religion that she has chosen. but a person is born with an identity card. there is a system there, we have in malaysia. the ID, and that ID you want to change, that creates problems. it’s got nothing to do with the fact that nobody has arrested her and forced her to become a muslim or to come back to be converted into a muslim. but the court decided on the basis that you cannot change your name in the ID. but she has her own choice and made her own choice in choosing what she wants to be. i don’t think we stopped that.
“so anybody can convert? in that case let’s take the case of
revathi masoosai, now she was a muslim born malaysian woman who was sent to an islamic rehabilitation centre for 6 months because she tried to live with a hindu.”
“I think that happens all the time. as a muslim, you have to look at the diversity. as a muslim, you are converted or you choose to convert, we see whether that conversion is being done or she had been entered into another religion voluntarily or not, then she will have that right, the choice, the option to decide on her own, and i think if you pick out of 5 million malaysians, or there are 12 million malaysians profess certain religion and there are 2 or 3 cases, i don’t think it represents the whole country and there are quite a number of issues that are more important or bigger than what you are describing, but if you describe out of one then it becomes the whole picture, then i don’t think it is right...”
“it’s important because it shows what the status is, it shows how it could affect other individuals, i mean if you take her case, why could she not practice as a hindu?”
“if she has decided if ultimately she has decided to become a hindu, then it’s up to her...”
“but she has to go through...”
“because she is a muslim...”
“the 6 month rehabilitation, she says it was like a prison,... she says it was actually a prison”
“out of the how many muslim women that you have converted into hindus...”
“she...”
“you are, she came out and she said this is what had happened, have they proceeded against her? they have not proceeded against her... she has, they want to make sure that her conversion out of islam...
“she now has to live with her mother in order to see her child...”
“to see her child... whether..."
“...has a child with a hindu man...”
“you know, if you follow a certain religion, like you are a member of a certain club, you are subject to certain rules. when you want to get out of that club, then you must make sure you follow that rule in getting out of it. but nobody is going to stop anyone who so strongly profess a certain religion, they want to change to another religion, that’s up to them but it does create misunderstanding between people, between religion... malaysia, we have survived because we have kept that com....(?)... rather than various religions living, practising, without interference. if you see in malaysia ther are more... malaysia practices more freedom than even in this country...”
“but these cases are used, are used as examples where people fear a creeping islamisation of malaysia”
“i think, i think there is that prejudice, rather than creeping islamisation, you must remember that in the constitution, islam is the official religion of malaysia... you know and at the same time we have got....”
“is it an islamic state?”
“it is an islamic state but it is not a theocratic islamic state. we have said that. you know, because we have said that as far as we are concerned, we do not see the separation, the old rule of separation of church and state as something that is applicable to us, we do not stop people building churches. there are soo many churches in malaysia, more than wherever you can find...”
“but have syariah courts operate?”
“syariah courts are for the muslims.”
“only for the muslims?”
“only for the muslims. its not... please don’t get...”
“but you have this system, because of the amendment in 1998, where there seems to be confusion over when syariah law apply and when...”
“ i think that, i know that you have looked at certain parts of it and try to dissect it. there is on matters pertaining to syariah, jurisdiction is given to the syariah courts. on matters pertaining to syariah. if there is any conflict between the two laws, between the syariah laws and civil laws, it is for the courts to decide. but this is done in the courts. we use the rule of law in order to determine rights and to determine which law is applicable and i think that is the correct way of approaching the subject. malaysia is not an easy country to run though, it is easier for commentators to say ‘this is wrong..., this is wrong’ but i think you have to live in it to see how it.. the govern the country and i think overall we are happy in what is happening in our country and whatever weaknesses we will overcome them.”
“when your prime minister abdullah badawi became prime minister, he promised to do a number of things, not least tackle corruption... and yet a certain survey by P...., a hong kong based consultancy, shows that corruption is perceived to have worsened in malaysia. can he accept that he has a lot more to do?”
“yes i think we agree with that, we have to do lot more, in terms of ensuring good governance, ensuring our fight against corruption can overcome. i think ahh, this is a... perennial problem that needs to be tackled and it has to be tackled with the law, as well as with education, that’s why have established the institute, the institute of integrity, in order to inculcate that sense of good governance, values which is necessary, a sense of morality. when we have problems, we identify them and try to tackle them.”
“is not going as fast as you had hoped? do you accept that?”
“i think in some areas it is slow and in some areas it is moving in the right direction, but there are problems..”
“dato' seri hamid albar...”
“thank you...”
so there you go. a bloody waste of time. a few things to note. albar's reliance football metaphors, spin doctoring, and verbal low-sai.
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